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Police say there is hole in gun law


Deputies, officers can't learn when a mentally ill person is banned from owning a firearm



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December 24, 2012 | 12:39 PM
ELKHORN — Local law enforcement officials believe there is a problem when it comes to keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill.

A judge can determine that a mentally ill person is a danger and can't own a weapon, but it is illegal for police to view that record, which raises enforcement and safety concerns.

Wisconsin judges, after a series of hearings, can commit a person who is mentally ill, and strip them of their right to own firearms.

This gun ban appears when a firearms dealer does a background check. However, it doesn't turn up when police look at a person's record.

Law enforcement officials believe this knowledge should be available to them. Whether they are conducting a traffic stop or responding to a standoff, police want to know whether they are facing a person found to be mentally unstable and possibly dangerous.

"Law enforcement decision making a lot of times is based on the information that is at the forefront of the case or the call at the moment," Walworth County Undersheriff Kurt Picknell said. "More information would be helpful and would provide more officer safety."

Both Picknell and Elkhorn Police Chief Joel Christensen believe this information should be available to them.

"The sooner we have access to that (mental health) information the better it is for all," Christensen said.

On Dec. 14, the Walworth County Criminal Justice Coordinating Committee held its regular meeting where it discussed Chapter 51 mental health commitments. Officials wanted to know whether firearms are turned over after a person is found to be mentally ill.

Only a few hours before the meeting, a gunman entered Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newton, Conn., and killed 26 people, including 20 children. The discussion on Chapter 51 commitments was scheduled well before the school massacre.

In an email, state Department of Justice Communications Officer Dana Brueck wrote that state law prohibits law enforcement from learning of civil commitments. It is the Department of Justice's policy to follow the law as it is written, she wrote.

Should the law change?

"That is a question for the Legislature," Brueck responded. "If legislation were to be drafted related to this issue, we would be ready to review or assist in its development." Brueck didn't respond to a question that asked if this was a good policy.

Commitments take time

Michelle M. Snead, assistant corporation counsel with the county, said there is a process for committing someone and it isn't enough if a person simply suffers from a mental illness.

A requirement for commitment is that a person must be afflicted with a mental illness, a developmental disability or a dependence on alcohol or other drugs.

That person also must make a credible threat of violence to themselves or another person.

Not every person that is taken into custody by police on an emergency detention hold is actually held by the county.

The county will determine whether to hold the individual, or the person may be released to a responsible party.

As of Thursday, in 2012 the county took 124 people into custody for emergency detentions. Twenty-three of those people were committed and are restricted from owning firearms.

Snead said after a person is committed, he or she can petition the court to have his rights restored. She knows of one person who so petitioned the court, but that effort failed.

Brueck wrote that after a court commitment, a person is required to report the information to the Department of Justice, which reports the information to NICS, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. This is the system gun dealers use when they check to see if someone can own firearms. However, law enforcement doesn't have access to this information.

Brueck said the court can also order that any firearm the person owns is seized.

The mentally ill person can turn his or her guns over to a third-party or police.

The CJCC discussed whether there was any follow through to ensure this is done.

"My concern is, when I read that warning to a subject, I'm just spinning my wheels," Walworth County Circuit Court Judge John Race said.

Snead said police may be in the courtroom during initial hearings, but they won't be there during the final hearings. This means even the officer who took the person into custody may not know the outcome.

Making the information available

During the CJCC meeting Race also argued that this information should be available to police.

"This isn't something that is abstract," he said and pointed to a recent case where a mentally ill man fired a rifle at the Sheriff Department's SWAT vehicle.

Police react

Fontana Police Chief Steve Olson said it is a problem that this information isn't available to police.

"It would be helpful to police to be able to red flag a person knowing that they shouldn't be around firearms," Olson said.

When police run background checks, it will appear if the person is a felon, which would make it illegal for them to own a firearm.

Depending on the felony, the officer may react differently during the traffic stop.

"If you look and you see an armed robbery or a battery to a police officer that does heighten the officer's awareness," Olson said. "They may be request that a backup officer be present."

However, Olson also said that during high-risk situations, police don't always know who the suspect is or have time to access background information.

"It is extremely rare in advance that we know who we are going to be dealing with and that a check has been done of them," Olson said. "A lot of times that has not been done until we call in the situation, secure it and then identify who we are dealing with."

Police have discretion to decide whether to take someone into custody for an emergency detention.

Christensen, the vice chairman of the CJCC, said he plans on bringing his concerns back to the committee.

"We are going to ask whether the committee itself would endorse a letter to go to our local representatives informing them of our concerns," Christensen said.

Picknell said the information could be restricted for law enforcement use only.

"The use of information from the (crime information bureau) already has restrictions in place, so this would be no different," Picknell said. "It would be restricted for official law enforcement use."

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  1. report print email
    WHY??????????????
    December 28, 2012 | 10:52 PM

    Can't we have responsible gun owners proving so with common sense legislation...

    Pass a mental health exam from a physician.

    Pass a physical exam of responsible ownership and handling of firearm.

    last but not least a DRUG TEST.

    It's just commonsense responsible measures needed. Those that can't pass those simple tasks do not belong with a gun.

    Our Constitution stated a WELL REGULATED MILITIA...during a time when WE did not have a standing ARMY in times of Peace.

    Chicago Style hotdog
    LG
  2. report print email
    Amazing.....
    December 30, 2012 | 06:38 PM

    I find it amazing that folks like hotdog can't WAIT to take away rights when it involves things they don't like, guns for example. They just can't wait to come up with new laws, restrictions, and "qualifications" to own a gun, but go off the handle when many of us ask for reasonable proof by requiring an ID to vote.

    If you want to start drug testing people hotdog, why don't we start with welfare recipients and those collecting government "benefits", you know things that aren't guaranteed by the constitution. We already have a whole range of laws and restrictions in the state applying to guns, we don't need more.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Wisconsin

    After reading your posts, I may be inclined to require drug tests for freedom of speech however....

    Enough Already
    Lake Geneva
  3. report print email
    RE: Enough Already with the FAKE Voter ID
    December 31, 2012 | 01:00 PM

    More people were killed from TVs falling and killing them, than people trying to illegally vote, last year. Enough Already with the right wing talking points, they do not solve problems but overshadow the real issues, like America seeing an increase in mass shootings and gun violence. The GOOD-GUYS with guns can't stop the bad guys, statics show arming more people does not deter nor stop the violence in progress, unless a uniformed officer is called in and the perpetrator kills themselves or is killed/taken into custody.

    No, I'm not interested in a police state where there are many police in the schools, grocery stores or movie theaters...I've seen that in other country's and it's not a friendly atmosphere. Yes, it was a THIRD WORLD country, and I thought we were past that here in America.

    The Right to bare Arms in a WELL REGULATED militia is not everyone and anyone can have a gun anywhere they want. Again, you are giving your opinion that YOUR rights are being violated, but again the only rights being violated are the countless human deaths by the countless guns not regulated WELL.

    As for your address of welfare and drug tests, they tried that in Florida and it cost the taxpayers 100,000's more money and it netted next to nothing in drug abuses. The people living as drug addicts are not living on welfare, they are living on borrowed time and money.

    Look up Australia, and how they handled their gun problems of the 90's, and see where they are today, or Europe most of those countries don't even have a standing army, and they don't have the violence we have here. How are they handling guns?

    Look, there is a problem, whether or not you choose to see it.

    tolerance and understanding equals peace...something lacking these days in America

    Chicago style hotdog
    LG
  4. report print email
    Went right over your head didn't it?
    December 31, 2012 | 02:06 PM

    The POINT was that while people like you hotdog, howl about requiring ID's to vote, you have NO PROBLEMS requiring all sorts of regulations for people wishing to exercise their right to bear arms. Perhaps you'd like to point out in the CONSTITUTION where it states that an ID is required to bear arms?

    You point out Australia, I point our Switzerland, where their "gun culture" is as alive and well as it is here, only difference is that they teach their people how to handle guns responsibly and safely, things that are mocked by you on the left.

    http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

    BTW, even with all your ridiculous regulations like "drug testing", it STILL wouldn't have stopped the Connecticut school shootings since the guy STOLE his mother's guns to commit the crime. If the EXISTING laws against theft and murder didn't stop this guy, a few more dumb regulations sure wouldn't have, THAT'S what people like you don't understand. We tried "banning" alcohol with prohibition, how'd THAT work out? We try "regulating" drugs with the whole "war on drugs" campaign, how's THAT working out?

    Your ideas are nothing more than typical left wing bandages to fix a broken leg prescriptions, don't infringe on the rights of millions of law abiding citizens because you want to "feel good" about yourself.

    Enough Already
    Lake Geneva
  5. report print email
    Re Enough Already
    January 01, 2013 | 09:55 AM

    First of all, "War on DRUGS" and regulations are two different issues. If you want to get into a debate about drugs, alcohol and prohibition, that's another day, and a DIFFERENT topic than GUNS.

    Switzerland, does allow everyone to bear arms BUT they are not in their personal homes, UNLESS they have a direct threat and prove so in court, otherwise they are in community LOCK BOXES, AND there is no standing army in peace time, YET every man is drafted into military service and taught gun responsibility in times of war and peace.

    They are not just walking around with a assault weapons on their hip because they can. That is what POLICE do and are trained and educated for. Should we just start hiring ANY GOOD GUY with a gun for our police force to?

    Why is simple commonsense regulation so hard for you to wrap your mind around. OUR Constitution does not give everyone anywhere at all times the right to bear arms. Well regulated militia in times of peace, is not without condition for all.

    Voter ID, again, fewer than less of a fraction of a percent commit voter fraud, and why? Because going to prison for 1 vote that will never make or break an election, is foolish. That is why most of that voter ID fraud is committed by felons that did not know they were not allowed to vote, until they were done serving all their sentence.



    Chicago Style hotdog
    LG
  6. report print email
    Bare Arms
    January 01, 2013 | 10:28 AM

    Just a note, we all have the right to bare arms at any time and any place, although in this weather this right is taken mostly by offensive linemen. The right to bear arms is a constitutional issue and a slippery slope especially noting that the only people who obey these laws are the ones who do not need to be regulated. You or anyone else cannot legislate common sense or common decency although I do wish that there was a way. Unfortunately there is no way to identify someone like this lady in Connecticut who taught her Special Ed. child to shoot and then didn't lock up the weapons so that only she could get to them. What was she thinking?
    The second amendment was put in place so that the government when operating in an illegal and tyrannical way would not be beyond the redress of the people. This is not only the right of the people as stated in the Constitution, but also their duty. As I said this is a slippery slope and was so noted by Benjamin Franklin when he wrote, "The man who gives up liberty in the name of security soon looses both."

    Just Sayin'
    Linn
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